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       乔布斯在《遗失的访谈》对话中说的一些话,实用、艺术、发人深省。记下来。应不断回忆。在这些话面前,所有的解释都多余。中文是我的简短笔记。更多精彩,在英文原文中。
 
1) 为什么感到有趣?因为年轻
 
"well, what's so interesting about that?
what's so interesting is that we were young"
 
2)工作中有大量“陈规”,我总问为什么,但大多数人不问:他们不深入思考
 
“in business, a lot of things are -- i call it "folklore."
they're done because they were done yesterday 
and the day before. and so what that means is 
if you're willing to sort of ask a lot of questions 
and think about things and work really hard, 
you can learn business pretty fast. 
it's not the hardest thing in the world. ”
 
“i'd always ask why you do things. 
and the answers you invariably get are, 
"oh, that's just the way it's done." 
nobody knows why they do what they do. 
nobody thinks about things very deeply in business. 
that's what i found. ”
 
3)掌握编程,电脑就能帮你做很多辛苦而乏味的工作(dog work),这是编程的好处
 
“well, i'll give you a simple example. 
when we were designing our blue box, 
we wrote a lot of custom programs to help us design it, 
you know, and to do a lot of the dog work for us”
 
4)编程更重要的好处,是改变思维方式,学会思考
 
“it had to do with using them 
to be a mirror of your thought process, 
to actually learn how to think. 
i think the greatest value of learning how to-- 
i think everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer, 
should learn a computer language, 
because it teaches you how to think. 
it's like going to law school. 
i don't think anybody should be a lawyer, 
but i think going to law school would actually be useful, 
'cause it teaches you how to think in a certain way, 
in the same way that computer programming teaches you 
in a slightly different way how to think. 
and so i view computer science as a liberal art. 
it should be something that everybody learns, 
you know, takes a year in their life-- 
one of the courses they take is, 
you know, learning how to program. ”
 
5)有钱好,让你能投资于短期内没有回报的好想法
 
“i think money is a wonderful thing 
'cause it enables you to do things. 
it enables you to invest in ideas 
that don't have a short-term payback and things like that. ”
 
6)但钱并不是最重要的。最重要的是公司、人、产品、用户
 
“it was not the most important thing. 
the most important thing was the company, 
the people, the products we were making, 
what we were gonna enable people to do with these products. ”
 
7)那些产品稳定、地位稳固的公司,往往认为产品好坏对公司增长已无所谓,重要的是销售和市场。因此,销售和市场人员常常成为主导,产品人员说不上话。这些公司忘记了伟大产品的意义,对产品好坏没有概念,虽然,当初正是这些产品奠定了它今天的地位。
 
“in technology companies that get monopolies
like-- oh, ibm and xerox. 
if you were a product person at ibm or xerox, 
so you make a better copier or a better computer-- so what? 
when you have a monopoly market share, 
the company is not any more successful. 
so the people that can make the company more successful 
are sales and marketing people. 
and they end up running the companies. 
and the product people get driven out of the decision-making forums.
and the companies forget 
what it means to make great products. 
sort of the product sensibility 
and the product genius 
that brought them to that monopolistic position 
gets rotted out 
by people running these companies who have no conception 
of a good product versus a bad product. ”
 
8)他们内心没有要帮助用户的热忱
 
“they really have no feeling in their hearts usually 
about wanting to really help the customers. ”
 
9)有的公司形成既得利益网络,有很多人帮它
 
“ibm's first product was terrible. it was really bad. 
and we made a mistake of not realizing 
that a lot of other people had a very strong vested interest 
in helping ibm make it better. 
so if it had just been up to ibm, 
they would have crashed and burned. 
but ibm did have, i think, a genius in their approach 
which was to have a lot of other people 
have a vested interest in their success. 
and that's what saved them in the end. ”
 
10)有些东西,一看到,就明白:这是未来、不可避免。这就是Vision。
 
“within, you know, 10 minutes, it was obvious to me
that all computers would work like this someday. it was obvious. 
i mean, you could argue about how many years it would take. 
you could argue about who the winners and losers might be, 
but you couldn't argue about the inevitability. it was so obvious. 
you would have felt the same way had you been there. ”
 
11)新的Vision,不易被专业人士理解,总被抵制,被认为无法实现。因为它离开了人们的舒适区间
 
“they didn't get this idea. they didn't get it.
i remember having dramatic arguments 
with some of these people who thought 
the coolest thing in user interface 
was soft keys at the bottom of a screen, you know. 
they had no concept of proportionally spaced fonts, 
no concept of a mouse-- as a matter of fact, 
i remember arguing with these folks-- people screaming at me 
that it would take us five years to engineer a mouse 
and it would cost $300 to build. 
and i finally got fed up. 
i just went outside and found david kelley design 
and asked him to design me a mouse. 
and in 90 days, we had a mouse we could build for 15 bucks 
that was phenomenally reliable. ”
 
12)追求产品,还是追求流程,人们也很容易迷失
 
“it's that people get confused. 
companies get confused. 
when they start getting bigger, 
they want to replicate 
their initial success. 
and a lot of them think, 
"well, somehow there is some magic 
in the process of how that success was created." ”
 
13)但我们还是要回到内容、产品,它们是最重要的。流程为它们服务。
 
“ibm has the best process people in the world. 
they just forgot about the content. 
and that's what happened a little bit at apple too. 
we had a lot of people who were great at management process. 
they just didn't have a clue as to the content. ”
 
14)最好的人,是那些真正理解内容的人。他们对内容的理解,造就好产品。好产品,来自内容,而不是流程
 
“the best people, you know, are the ones 
that really understand the content. 
and they're a pain in the butt to manage, you know? 
but you put up with it because they're so great at the content. 
and that's what makes great products-- 
it's not process. it's content.”
 
15)有一种严重的疾病,就是认为有一个好的想法,就完成了工作的90%,然后只需要告诉其它人,他们就会把它实现。
 
"the disease of thinking 
that a really great idea 
is 90% of the work 
and that if you just tell 
all these other people, you know, 
"here's this great idea," 
then of course they can go off and make it happen.”
 
16) 这是一种病。把一个伟大的想法变成一个伟大的产品,需要巨量、辛苦、高超的手艺。
 
"and the problem with that is, 
is that there is just a tremendous amount of craftsmanship 
in between a great idea and a great product. "
 
17)人们对“手艺”的轻视,是一种灾难。正是“手艺”,把好想法变成好产品,把Vision变成现实
 
“they have no conception of the craftsmanship 
that's required to take a good idea 
and turn it into a good product.”
 
18)所谓“手艺”,就是在制作的过程中,细致地对各种细节进行探究,学到很多,想法因此演进、改变、增长,变得和原来不一样。
 
"and as you evolve that great idea, it changes and grows. 
it never comes out like it starts, 
because you learn a lot more as you get into the subtleties of it 
and you also find there is tremendous trade-offs that you have to make. "
 
19)你也会碰到各种限制。你在这些限制中前行。你脑子里可能有5000个不同的东西需要考虑。你需要想方设法把它们适配到一起。每天,你发现新问题,或者新机会。这就是把想法变为内容和产品的真实过程。它充满魔力。
 
"i mean, there are just certain things you can't make electrons do.
there are certain things you can't make plastic do or glass do-- 
and as you get in-- or factories do or robots do. 
and as you get into all these things, 
designing a product is keeping 5000 things in your brain--
these concepts-- and fitting them all together 
and kind of continuing to push 
to fit them together in new and different ways to get what you want.
and every day you discover something new 
that is a new problem or a new opportunity 
to fit these things together a little differently. 
and it's that process that is the magic."
 
20)我们带着想法、和对这些想法的信仰启程。我们还要面对长时间的、团队成员间的碰撞、磨合。伟大产品,是团队成员不断碰撞、磨合的结果。
 
“so we had a lot of great ideas when we started, 
but what i've always felt 
that a team of people doing something they really believe in 
is like-- is like when i was a young kid 
there was a widowed man that lived up the street.
and he was in his 80s. 
he was a little scary-looking. and i got to know him a little bit.
i think he might have paid me to mow his lawn or something. 
and one day he said, "come on into my garage. i want to show you something." 
and he pulled out this dusty old rock tumbler. 
it was a motor and a coffee can 
and a little band between them. 
and he said, "come on with me." 
we went out to the back and we got some-- just some rocks, 
some regular old ugly rocks. 
and we put them in the can with a little bit of liquid 
and a little bit of grit powder. 
and we closed the can up. 
and he turned this motor on and said, "come back tomorrow." 
and this can was making, you know, a racket 
as the stones went around. 
and i came back the next day. 
and we took-- we opened the can. 
and we took out these amazingly beautiful polished rocks.
the same common stones that had gone in, 
through rubbing against each other like this, 
creating a little bit of friction, creating a little bit of noise, 
had come out these beautiful polished rocks. 
and that's always been in my mind, 
my metaphor for a team working really hard 
on something they're passionate about-- 
is that it's through the team, 
through that group of incredibly talented people 
bumping up against each other, 
having arguments, having fights sometimes, 
making some noise, 
and working together, they polish each other 
and they polish the ideas. 
and what comes out are these really beautiful stones, you know? ”
 
21)生活中大多数事物,“最好”和“平均”的差距,最多2:1
 
“ in my life, i observed something fairly early on at apple
which-- i didn't know how to explain it then,
but i've thought a lot about it since. 
if you-- most things in life, 
the dynamic range between "average" and "the best" 
is at most two-to-one. 
like, if you go to new york city and you get 
an average taxicab driver versus the best taxicab driver, 
you know you're probably gonna get to your destination 
with the best taxicab maybe 30% faster. ”
 
22)但在软件和硬件领域里,“最好”和“平均”的差距,是50:1,甚至100:1
 
“in software -- and it used to be the case in hardware too--
the difference between average and the best 
is 50-to-one, maybe 100-to-one. 
- easy. - okay? 
very few things in life are like this, 
but what i was lucky enough to spend my life in is like this.”
 
23) 因此,需要发现那些真正有才的人,让他们在一起。他们随后会筛选后面进来的人,确保整个团队的优秀
 
“and so i've built a lot of my success
off finding these truly gifted people 
and not settling for "b" and "c" players, 
but really going for the "a" players. and i found something. 
i found that when you get enough "a" players together, 
when you go through the incredible work 
to find, you know, five of these "a" players, 
they really like working with each other 
because they've never had a chance to do that before. 
and they don't want to work with "b" and "c" players. 
and so it becomes self-policing. 
and they only want to hire more "a" players. 
and so you build up these pockets of "a" players 
and it propagates. 
and that's what the mac team was like. 
they were all "a" players. ”
 
24)必须承认,我Drive得很厉害,大家都很艰辛
 
“if you talk to a lot of people on the mac team, 
they will tell you 
it was the hardest they've ever worked in their life. 
some of them will tell you 
it was, you know, the happiest they've ever been in their life. 
but i think all of them will tell you 
that it is certainly one of the most intense and cherished experiences 
- they will ever have in their life. - yeah, they did. ”
 
25)真正优秀的人,知道自己优秀。因此,不必象对待婴儿那样,照顾他的自尊。大家都知道,这是工作。
 
“when you get really good people, 
they know they're really good, 
and you don't have to baby people's egos so much. 
and what really matters is the work. 
and everybody knows that. 
that's all that matters-- is the work.”
 
26)各人负责解决具体的一块问题。最重要的是,清楚地指出哪些地方做得不够、为什么不够,让他回到轨道上来。不能让他觉得你怀疑他的能力,同时要让他清楚他做的不足以支持整个团队的成功。要做到这些非常难。我总是采取直接的方式。
 
“so it-- people are being counted on
to do specific pieces of the puzzle. 
and the most important thing, i think, you can do 
for somebody who is really good 
and who's really being counted on 
is to point out to them 
when they're not-- 
their work isn't good enough, 
and to do it very clearly and to articulate why 
and to get them back on track. 
and you need to do that in a way 
that does not call into question 
your confidence in their abilities, 
but leaves not too much room for interpretation 
that the work that they have done for this particular thing 
is not good enough to support the goal of the team. 
and that's a hard thing to do. 
and i've always taken a very direct approach. ”
 
27)我不在意犯错,只关心成功。知道错了,立刻改正。我喜欢承认犯错。这对我来说没有什么。重要的是做对。
 
“i'm also one of these people 
that i don't really care about being right, you know. 
i just care about success. 
so you'll find a lot of people that will tell you 
that i had a very strong opinion 
and they presented evidence to the contrary 
and five minutes later i completely changed my mind, 
'cause i'm like that. i don't mind being wrong. 
and i'll admit that i'm wrong a lot. 
it doesn't really matter to me too much. 
what matters to me is that we do the right thing.”
 
28)对外宣传时,不要同时宣布两项成就,它们会互相干扰,让外界搞不清你的重点
 
“i made probably the largest marketing blunder of my career 
by announcing the "macintosh office" 
instead of just "desktop publishing." 
and we had desktop publishing 
as a major component of that, 
but we announced a bunch of other stuff as well. 
and i think we should have just focused 
on desktop publishing at that time. ”
 
29)我们所处的行业为什么这么精彩绝伦?因为五年前,你绝对不会想到现在
 
“it's another one of those things 
that it's obvious once it happens, 
but five years ago, who would have guessed? 
right. that's right. 
isn't this a wonderful place we live in? ”
 
30)最重要的是保持自身的特色
 
“most importantly their differentiation 
has been eroded”
 
31)更多远见和创新
 
“more insight and more creativity.”
 
32)计算机界的创新主要发生在软件上
 
“the innovation in the industry is in software. ”
“software is one of the most potent competitive weapons.
i mean, the most successful business war was "friends & family"-- 
mci's "friends & family" in the last 10 years. 
and what was that? it was a brilliant idea. 
and it was custom billing software. 
at&t didn't respond for 18 months, 
yielding billions of dollars' worth of market share to mci. 
not 'cause they were stupid, but because they couldn't get the billing software done. 
so in ways like that and in smaller ways, 
software is becoming an incredible force in this world ”
 
33)互联网把计算机变成了通信工具
 
“web is incredibly exciting 
because it is the fulfillment of a lot of our dreams 
that the computer would ultimately not be 
primarily a device for computation, 
but metamorphosize into a device for communication. 
and with the web, that's finally happening. ”
 
34)决定你方向的东西,十分微妙
 
“when you set a vector off in space, 
if you can change its direction a little bit at the beginning, 
it's dramatic when it gets a few miles out in space. 
i feel we are still really at the beginning of that vector. 
and if we can nudge it in the right directions, 
it will be a much better thing 
as it progresses on. ”
 
35)怎么知道是正确方向?需要品位(Taste)
 
"how do you know what's the right direction? 
you know, 
ultimately it comes down to taste. 
it comes down to taste."
 
36)把你自己暴露在人类最美好的东西面前,然后把它们带入你正在做的事情中
 
"it's-- 
it comes down to trying to expose yourself 
to the best things that humans have done 
and then try to bring those things in 
to what you are doing. 
i mean, picasso had a saying. he said,
"good artists copy. great artists steal." 
and we have always been shameless 
about stealing great ideas."
 
37)音乐、诗歌、艺术、动物、历史,让你做出更Amazing的工作。那是一种自由的、艺术的气息和态度。把它们带入我们正在实现的内容中。如果狭隘,就做不到。
 
“and i think part of what made the macintosh great
was that the people working on it 
were musicians and poets 
and artists and zoologists and historians 
who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world. 
but if it hadn't been for computer science, 
these people would have all been, you know, 
doing amazing things in life in other fields. 
and they brought with them-- 
we all brought to this effort 
a very liberal arts 
sort of air, 
a very liberal arts attitude, 
that we wanted to pull in 
the best that we saw in these other fields 
into this field. 
and i don't think you get that 
if you're very narrow.
 
38)有时要跳出每日的生活
 
“there was something beyond 
sort of what you see every day. 
there's something going on here in life 
beyond just a job and a family 
and two cars in the garage and a career. 
there's something more going on. 
there's another side of the coin 
that we don't talk about much.”
 
39)去发现另一种生活,和我们父母不一样的生活
 
“they wanted to find out what that was about. 
and that life wasn't about what they saw their parents doing. ”
 
40)我们把这种态度带入了我们的电脑中,因此,人们爱它
 
“it's the same thing that causes people 
to want to be poets instead of bankers, you know? 
and-- 
and i think that's a wonderful thing. 
and i think that that same spirit 
can be put into products. 
and those products can be manufactured and given to people 
and they can sense that spirit. i mean, if you talk to people 
that use the macintosh, they love it. 
i mean, you don't hear people loving products very often-- 
you know, really. 
but you could feel it in there. 
there was something really wonderful there. ”
 
41)人们爱你的产品,不是因为能够用你的产品工作,而是因为他们用它来分享自己的“感觉”。这时,人们爱它。
 
“they've worked with computers 
because they are the medium 
that is best capable 
of transmitting 
some feeling that you have 
that you want to share with other people. ”
 
参考文献:
 
1)Steve Jobs - The lost interview,英文对白,链接:http://www.allreadable.com/031f1FIL
2)乔布斯《遗失的访谈》,对白中文翻译,全文:尘封16年的预见,2013年05月08日,作者:雅楠,感谢@七印部落,全文经@创事记编辑并新浪独家首发,链接:http://tech.sina.com.cn/it/csj/2013-05-08/07388316336.shtml
3)视频,【七印部落】乔布斯:遗失的访谈_中英双语字幕版—在线播放—优酷网,视频高清在线观看,链接:http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTUxNDY1NDY4.html
4)视频,乔布斯斯坦福大学演讲(高清,中英文字幕)—在线播放—优酷网,视频高清在线观看,链接:
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陈一帅

陈一帅

81篇文章 1年前更新

通信与信息系统博士,曾就职于朗讯贝尔实验室,现居北京,Kassy的爸爸。个人主页:https://yishuai.github.io

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